The Walking Dead 141 Discussion

Ok, so; I’m really loving Rick and Negan’s relationship development. This is exactly what I’ve been hoping for all along; it will be a long hard road; but I’ve always thought a hard-won alliance would be possible.

This is exactly what I predicted Negan would do back in #140 as well. I had a feeling he was going to go on some murderous, vengeful rampage. What would be the point? He’s spent three years in a cell, lost an entire thriving community, just to get out and murder a few people before they inevitably gun him down? No, he far more complex than that. Also, I think we should all take a few minutes and go re-read the final pages of #126. I’m still of a mind that Negan wasn’t completely bullsh*tting Rick when he had his epiphany about working together and forging a new civilization from the ashes of the old one. I really think he was beginning to see the light; but obviously locking him up was the right thing to do. Because while he may have been coming around to Rick’s ideals; at that point he was still too wrapped up in his leadership and all his characteristically Negan-behaviors that he wouldn’t have followed through with the transition/change. He needed to undergo some sort of cognitive recalibration first. Which is, in my opinion the purpose of his incarceration.

That being said, this is precisely what I expected from him. To just sit back, with the door wide open and wait for Rick to come home; so he could see for himself and make his own judgment. And while it may have seemed like Rick wasn’t buying a single word Negan spat; this encounter and discovery definitely rattled his cage and f*cked his mind pretty good. I can tell, somewhere deep in his mind he actually considering the possibility of Negan’s genuineness. Their relationship has really grown very complex; probably more complex and serious than Rick had ever intended. At this point; I feel like they’ve entered into a sort of “Batman-Joker” type of relationship–where one cannot exist without the other. They need each other. Also, I’m kind of disappointed in Rick and is wasn’t until this issue that I truly noticed a monumental change, and behavioral shift in Rick. He’s different now; he’s changed immensely–and I’m not entirely sure it’s for the better. Rick really showed his ass down their with Negan. I mean, like Negan said, it’s just them down there, and they know one another intimately. There’s no need to put on a show or try to puff out your chest in an attempted-intimidation. Rick should know better than anyone that if Negan had wanted his life; he would have took before Rick made it down the staircase. Now, I don’t blame Rick for not hanging on Negan’s every word, and being so impressed with his trustworthiness that he was willing to give him a chance in the community. But at the same time; I think he could have kept his gun holstered and spoke with Negan like he were a human being. They’re both men, extraordinary men. There’s no need to play games and dance this ritualistic dance. I’m not saying he even had to consider Negan’s requests and claims. But he could have listened, and really taken the measure of the man, who he was, who he’s become, the situation, the circumstances–and then put some serious though into it.

But, I think the reason he shut that door was fairly obvious. Negan really touched on something during their talk and I think it shook Rick to his core. This is also another indicator of how intimate and complex their relationship has grown(whether they wanted it to or not). Negan lectures Rick about the things he’s done, the sacrifices he’s made, the lives he’s taken, and the unforgivable acts of violence he’s displayed. This opened my eyes to something for the first time; the same thing I mentioned above–a monumental change in Rick. He’s immensely different and I can’t believe I didn’t see it sooner. Now more than ever I can the seed of tyranny growing within him; and I’m talking about something much more severe than the “Ricktator”. It’s always been quite clear that Rick and the Governor were two sides of the same coin(as well as Rick and Negan in many respects)–and now, as Rick grows older, as his world grows larger, more civilized-he ultimately grows more powerful. With that power comes fear, fear of losing it, fear of detrimental mistakes, fear of destabilization, fear of possible dissension and mutiny, etc. When a man/leader reaches that point there is only one possible course of action: complete and utter abuse of power and status in the interest of securing said power absolutely. Rick’s fear of his civilization crumbling and hurtling them all back into the dark ages, back to “the way things were”; those volatile and violent times, not only could–but most certainly is driving Rick to tyranny. What I think scares Rick the most though; is that no matter what he accomplishes, or who he spares; behind that thin veil of leadership and civilization is a monster. A ferocious monster forged in the fires of apocalyptic survival, tragic loss and immense trauma.

Deep down Rick knows he’s no better, or different from Negan. And honestly, I’m starting to become equally as exhausted as Negan with Rick’s ridiculous hypocrisy. I mean, I’m not saying cut Negan loose and insert him into the community; but atleast consider giving the man a chance–after all everyone had given Rick a chance. And I guarantee that if every ASZ resident knew the true extent of all he’s done in the interest of his of personal survival and selfish preservation; they wouldn’t be so fond of having him as a leader. They certainly wouldn’t be worshiping him as a hero and savior.

Also, could it be that Rick reinstates Negan was the leader of the Saviors? It sure seems to be leaning that way.

Another thing I found refreshing and extremely interesting is Dwight. I’ve never liked Dwight, I never hated him; but I just wasn’t a huge fan. Don’t get me wrong, during AOW I though he was a very compelling and interesting character. He was a device that made for some riveting and unpredictable story telling. But now, after this issue; I’m starting to genuinely like him. First thing’s first, starting at the surface–I really dig Dwight’s “A New Beginning” look. He seems to have completely abandoned the whole unsavory, gritty, hardened criminal look and traded it for something much more practical and tactical. Something akin to the garb of a hunter, hiker, or scout. And while they say never judge a book by it’s cover; this new look says a lot to me about the new Dwight. He’s calmed down, become loyal, learned to genuinely play well with others, etc.

I really enjoyed his conversation with Rick. Since Dwight’s introduction in #98, he has only had a handful of substantial encounters with Rick; and most of those were lackluster do to the circumstance of the war and the question and suspicion of Dwight’s true loyalties. But it appears that he and Rick have really grown into their working relationship; to the point that it seems like that may have developed a genuine friendship. Obviously it’s not a Rick/Jesus type bond; but I think it goes without saying that Rick not only trusts Dwight now, but also even likes him a bit. Dwight really impressed me with his behavior. The way he approached Rick and requested a personal conversation, almost as if Dwight views Rick as a trusted and valued brethren, leader, and adviser, was nice to see. It appears Rick has become a genuine confidant for Dwight; and Dwight has a lot of respect for him and his advice and ideals. Another thing that impressed the hell out of me was Dwight’s modestly and humbleness. That showed me just how far he’s come from the days of triple-agent deceit, and a thirst to wield Lucille and assume all the power and authority that came with the symbolic “scepter”. It takes a real man to admit that he isn’t cut out for leadership, to say that he doesn’t want the power, he doesn’t want to rule people and make decisions for them. It’s not that he fears the responsibility; I think deep down, he actually fears failure, and the disappointment of his people. Which speaks volumes of the man he’s become; he used to be a selfish, underhanded fiend. Now he’s a modest, and benevolent leader; this couldn’t have been made clearer than when Dwight commented on Sherry and how her genuine happiness with another man brings him happiness as well. I didn’t know he had it in him to be so selfless.

The whole encounter between he and Rick had a very “Father-Son-Heart-to-Heart” vibe to it. And it actually worked really well. It didn’t seem odd, or out of place, or forced. It seemed natural and genuine. Rick’s advice was warm, heartfelt, wise. He helped Dwight to see that leadership chooses the leader, not the other way around. Whether you like it or not. And even though Dwight may think otherwise at the moment; “leadership” never chooses wrong.

I’m very interested in seeing where this leads. I just hope it’s not a setup for a new, reformed Negan to take up the helm at the Sanctuary once again. That’s just too reminiscent of the past; it’s critical that they continue to change and evolve with a forward motion. Otherwise they risk the very real possibility of history repeating.

That being said; I found it intriguing that the Saviors’ relationship and status among the network of communities is still very, very rocky. I mean, I understand that just a few years earlier some of the people were jumping at the chance to slit the throat of an ASZ resident. But I think many of the most unsavory Saviors died in the war. If you remember, Carson explained to Eugene that all of the residents at the Sanctuary itself are actually normal, decent people; and that Negan kept the worst, most violent and dastardly Saviors stationed at his various outposts in the surrounding areas. He did this in the interest of keep them away from the good people; but he also knew he had a need and a use for these types of men. But now that need is no longer relevant; which leads me to believe the majority of the surviving Saviors are comprised of decent folk. But, it’s still obvious that people are very eager to give them a chance, or take a risk on them. That, coupled with the fact that I’m sure many of the Saviors harbor quite a bit of guilt and shame for their affiliation with Negan and their participation in his acts of violence and cruelty, makes for a very rocky, and delicate relationship with the rest of the Grimes Kingdom. They are without a doubt, part of the community; but a genuine welcomed alliance with still a few years out. Trust is hard to come by in this world and even harder to build. Even rarer and more difficult to achieve than trust is redemption. So the Saviors have their work cut out for them.

I found it very interesting that they seem to keep the Saviors on the outside in a sense. I’m willing to be Dwight or any of the Saviors come around, or visit the other communities very often(with the exception of Carson). It seems that they most likely only make the journey to visit another community out of sheer necessity.

So, all that being said; I think it goes without saying that I’m am very excited and interested in seeing not only how things play out at the Fair with all communities present. But, also just how many Saviors even show up for the Fair. It seems like they may not feel so welcome; so I wonder how compelled they’ll be to even attend the Fair. At the same time; this could be a great team building exercise. Giving all the vastly different residents of the communities the chance to break bread and really get to know each other on a level deeper than face value.

Moving on, I was so surprised that they decided to lynch Gregory! Don’t get me wrong; I’m so glad that snake in the grass has finally been removed from the equation. Because as long as he was sucking wind; the possibility of him using his silver tongue and his extremely capable manipulative abilities to create unrest and dissension was a very, very real threat. I just wish we could have gotten a little more insight into how Maggie and Jesus finally came to the final decision of hanging Gregory. It seemed there was quite an audience, so I wonder if they made and official announcement informing the community of Gregory’s crimes against the administration. If so, did Maggie inform the community of White Trash Family’s conspiratorial involvement in the assassination attempt? Were they, or will they be persecuted and punished as well? That double page spread created more questions than it answered, lol.

But, regardless of all that–I was ecstatic to see someone finally get the rope in the TWD. Not only was it some serious ironic symbolism that Maggie(and her attempted suicide) would be the one to execute a community resident by way of hanging; but I’ve been waiting to see someone get lynched since Rick had intended to hang Thomas Richards back at the prison. Ironically enough, the only reason Thomas Richards never made it to the noose was because Maggie gunned him down in the cell block before Rick could string him up. Also, the reason I’m calling it a lynching is because, as far as we know, there was no trial or due process of any sort. Just swift and brutal apocalyptic frontier justice.

I can’t wait to find out what Rick’s take on this is. This has got to be the first execution since they formed their new world order. I think this will finally force Rick to amend his “We Don’t Kill” law. Because, even in the civilized world before the Turn we believed and exercised capital punishment. I think Rick will finally be forced to realize that while it is no longer necessary for them to ruthlessly and carelessly kill just to survive; they are still a long time from creating the type of utopian pacifistic society Rick dreams of. Killing still has a very prevalent and useful place and purpose in the volatile new world they’re forging. Things are going to change now; and Rick is going to have to wake up from the dream he’s been living in for the past 2 or 3 years. He’s done a great job keeping the peace and his hands clean. But in a world now steeped in blood and being reborn from the deaths of billions; you’re going to have to get your hands dirty. Sadly, a world where Rick’s blood-soaked hands can be washed clean once in for all will not be seen in his lifetime.

I don’t believe Rick will be cross with Maggie. I think this will just be a wake up call for him, in many ways. I think he’ll realize he’s being a little naive. He needs to return his old ways, not entirely; but what I mean is he needs to go back to taking the world as it is, not as he wants it to be.

The only thing I missed in this issue was a check-in on our favorite one-eyed Prodigal Son. I wonder is he’s enjoying his vacation in Whisper Town? I mean, what’s not to love? Being constantly surrounded by the undead and a bunch of primitive, skin-wearing freaks; falling asleep to the constant and soothing screams of slaughtered livestock, and not to mention they joyous possibility of receiving his own diseased skin-suit to wear!

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention. The official announcement of Rosita and Eugene’s bastard child. Or should I call the milkman’s kid? Or possibly the carpenter’s child?*hint hint*

This short two or three pages felt very forced and out of place. It felt like the only reason this little get together was written was solely to give Rick a transitional vehicle/segue for chastising Olivia. I will say though; I was stunned that Rick did exactly what Negan said he was going to do. Like I said, it seems they’ve developed a very intimate knowledge of one another; hell Andrea even made the quip about Rick going to see his “boyfriend” as soon as he gets home.

Thoughts on Negan.
I think Negan is a good guy, and all he ever wanted was to protect his people. He was taking supplies from the hilltop and killing walkers for them, but I call that strategy. He was thinking “we’re big, were strong, were intimidating, we can take care of walkers, so let’s let them take care of supplies.” And yes, the hilltop didn’t like it, but no one was getting hurt.
Then Rick comes in all bold and confident and sees what Negan is doing as bad. Which from his point of view, it is, he just didn’t think it all through. He decided to go after Negan with some people, and Dwight and some saviors run into them and Rick kills some saviors. Rick caused first blood… Then Dwight comes back for revenge and kills [spoiler] then takes [spoiler] hostage and goes to Alexandria to tell them to stop and give the saviors half of their supplies.
Rick responds by killing a bunch more of the saviors and Dwight flees. Ricks side has only lost one person so far. Saviors have probably lost like 5 to 10. Does that seem fair in any way?
So yah, Negan retaliates (rightfully) and kills [spoiler] in issue 100 which shouldn’t have happened at all, but Rick was too stupid and too confident in his plan to attack Negan.
This basically starts a massive war because of Ricks initial actions.
What he should’ve done was go to Negan peacefully and say “let’s work together towards a common goal of surviving. And we can trade and stuff” but no. He just attacks.
By The end of All Out War II, he finally achieved what should’ve happened 5 volumes prior. Peace, trade, and survival. Rick took the stupid long hard path to victory, which isn’t even a victory because the group lost too many people. And only to get to a point that could’ve been achieved earlier with no deaths.
Now, I wouldn’t take anything back because everything that happened is written by Kirkman as genius in the eyes of storytelling. No one wants to see immediate peace. We want war, conflict, excitement, action. And by God, that’s what he gave us because he’s telling a story. But now, he needs to continue that story. In 141, Negan tells Rick that all he wanted was to protect his people, and Rick got in his way. From an outside source, Rick looks as bad as Negan. And now, Negan wants to build trust with Rick when he could’ve gotten out and killed tons of people. But he didn’t because he wants Rick to trust him. And in response, Rick continues to treat him like shit for his retaliations to what Rick initially did. I think at this point, Rick is sort of an antiprotagonist, but he doesn’t even realize it because he’s too bold to think that he’s doing wrong.
I think him and Negan should work together towards a common goal of peace and survival and they could honestly achieve greatness, but Rick won’t realize that he needs to trust Negan. Rick needs to realize what he did wrong and just accept that. Because when someone offers trust, take it. Because your gonna need it when someone like the Whisperers come along and you don’t know what’s gonna happen.
I think Rick and Negan are gonna team up. But then ricks gonna think the Whisperers took Carl and not that Carl went willingly. Therefore, he’s gonna go full forces to get Carl back instead of going peacefully, and that’s gonna result in more unneeded war and death. Which the story “needs”
I want to see peace, but no one else does. Peace is over, and Kirkman had to do a 2 year time skip because majority of the people don’t want to see two years worth of peace. And now, two years later, more conflict, more war, more death.